And last I checked, when the F-14A and F-15A first went at eachother, the fight was over in less than 80 seconds with both Tomcats holding gun tracking solutions on both Eagles, one at 10,000 feet, one at 30,000 feet. Then the photo footage of the F-15's getting waxed by the Tomcats got out in Aviation Week which caused a massive uproar with our generals because Japan was second-guessing their Eagle buy and it took a bit of coaxing to get them back. Of note, this fly-off was done at the end of AIMVAL/ACEVAL with some of the best crews available to both the USAF and USN at the time. Tomcat 1's crew was Joe "Hoser" Satrapa and Bill "Hill Billy" Hill, Tomcat 2 was Dan "Turk" Pentecost and Frank "Fearless" Schumacher; they split the fight into 2 1v1's, Hoser going low, Turk going high, both killing their Eagles with "minimal heavy breathing" over the radio.
Which made the Eagle's AIM/ACE patches "How about now, Baby?" (for example) pretty funny...
BUT!
The assessments made here by MB pretty much back what I hear from Tomcat crews: it depended on where you were in the envelope, and at what altitude, and where at.
VF-14 and VF-32 flew off against F-15's out of Langley in the late 1970's and found that in a multi-bogey environment, and in turning fights below 20,000 feet, the F-14 had the advantage. If they wound up higher than 20,000 feet, they lost a lot of advantages, adding to the fact that the TF-30 hated the thin air above that point. The Tomcat *might* have better wing loading, depending on its weapon configuration, getting as low as 55psf or as high as over 100psf, as related by Admiral Gilchrist. The Tomcat also had maneuver flaps and slats helping it at lower speeds. The Eagle had a massive advantage in T:W over the F-14A, and could also have a wing-loading advantage based upon the loadouts.
The F-14B was a real kick in the head, though, easily comparable to the F-15C, and again, depending on where you were, would either have advantage or disadvantage. Dave "Hey Joe" Parsons was one of the first to witness what the "Big Engines" did to the Tomcat, as his pilot entered a one-circle fight with an F-16, got the advantage, and as the Viper tried to use the vertical to escape, wound up getting gunned because the GE engines allowed the Tomcat to follow it without issue. Against the F-15, their first encounters in the late 1980's (1988, IIRC) the Tomcats utterly slaughtered the Eagles, who were not expecting them to follow into the vertical. In one fight Parsons describes the Bravo going "literally canopy-to-canopy with the Eagle." The debrief started with "Uhh...did you guys get new engines?" It was also one of the few planes that could chase down an RF-111F on the deck.
Another Tomcat driver, callsign "Cosmo" took his F-14B up against an Israeli F-16, wound up in a 4-and-a-half minute fight that ended with the F-16 calling Joker before a decisive victory could be had.
In essence, neither plane is better. Both have their advantages and their disadvantages, but it all depends on the pilot, not the plane. It doen't take a "Hoser," "Frosty," "Snort," or "Heater" to whoop someone's ass in even an "A-" Tomcat, it was a damn fine plane and designed from the onset to be able to dogfight.
But I'm just using the above examples to illustrate that point. In reality, I acknowledge full well that both the Tomcat and the Eagle are fine airframes, and I would not call one better than the other, realistically. It's the guy at the stick that decides the victor
Also, Eraser_tr hit the nail on the head. The Tomcat was not retired due to airfram capability at all; rather the axing of the program in 1992 by then-SECDEF Cheney. Not much for the airframes to do but get older, lack parts and eventually wear out their usefulness.
Which made the Eagle's AIM/ACE patches "How about now, Baby?" (for example) pretty funny...
BUT!
The assessments made here by MB pretty much back what I hear from Tomcat crews: it depended on where you were in the envelope, and at what altitude, and where at.
VF-14 and VF-32 flew off against F-15's out of Langley in the late 1970's and found that in a multi-bogey environment, and in turning fights below 20,000 feet, the F-14 had the advantage. If they wound up higher than 20,000 feet, they lost a lot of advantages, adding to the fact that the TF-30 hated the thin air above that point. The Tomcat *might* have better wing loading, depending on its weapon configuration, getting as low as 55psf or as high as over 100psf, as related by Admiral Gilchrist. The Tomcat also had maneuver flaps and slats helping it at lower speeds. The Eagle had a massive advantage in T:W over the F-14A, and could also have a wing-loading advantage based upon the loadouts.
The F-14B was a real kick in the head, though, easily comparable to the F-15C, and again, depending on where you were, would either have advantage or disadvantage. Dave "Hey Joe" Parsons was one of the first to witness what the "Big Engines" did to the Tomcat, as his pilot entered a one-circle fight with an F-16, got the advantage, and as the Viper tried to use the vertical to escape, wound up getting gunned because the GE engines allowed the Tomcat to follow it without issue. Against the F-15, their first encounters in the late 1980's (1988, IIRC) the Tomcats utterly slaughtered the Eagles, who were not expecting them to follow into the vertical. In one fight Parsons describes the Bravo going "literally canopy-to-canopy with the Eagle." The debrief started with "Uhh...did you guys get new engines?" It was also one of the few planes that could chase down an RF-111F on the deck.
Another Tomcat driver, callsign "Cosmo" took his F-14B up against an Israeli F-16, wound up in a 4-and-a-half minute fight that ended with the F-16 calling Joker before a decisive victory could be had.
In essence, neither plane is better. Both have their advantages and their disadvantages, but it all depends on the pilot, not the plane. It doen't take a "Hoser," "Frosty," "Snort," or "Heater" to whoop someone's ass in even an "A-" Tomcat, it was a damn fine plane and designed from the onset to be able to dogfight.
But I'm just using the above examples to illustrate that point. In reality, I acknowledge full well that both the Tomcat and the Eagle are fine airframes, and I would not call one better than the other, realistically. It's the guy at the stick that decides the victor
Also, Eraser_tr hit the nail on the head. The Tomcat was not retired due to airfram capability at all; rather the axing of the program in 1992 by then-SECDEF Cheney. Not much for the airframes to do but get older, lack parts and eventually wear out their usefulness.
