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【资料】流传最广的二战意大利地摊文辟谣

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安定地转。无授权侵删。
这是一个用数据和资料堆起来的帖子。
所谓干货打脸的快感。


IP属地:河南来自Android客户端1楼2015-11-02 13:21回复
    第一部分:
    冷冻干燥的保存食物法其实古代北欧海盗就有了,那里轮得到意大利首创?至于震惊联合国那更是搞笑,当时是国联;
    关于意大利面的问题,其实意军在北非根本吃不上意大利面,野上武志引用了吉川先生的《意大利军入门》告诉我们,德意军在北非吃的是罐头


    IP属地:河南来自Android客户端4楼2015-11-02 13:22
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      2025-05-21 11:19:01
      广告
      6*某俘虏营的意大利越狱了,因为没有PASTA吃,他们跑到了另一个有PASTA的俘虏营,后来,之前的俘虏营向他们保证会提供PASTA,于是他们又回去了……
      ————————————————————————
      被德意军解救的意军俘虏泪目
      7*德军在沙漠中接收到意大利的救援请求,派出了一个中队的兵力前往救援。当他们与意大利会合的时候,发现对方正用宝贵的水煮通心粉……
      ————————————————————————————————
      看了对1-5条的反驳,你还相信是真的吗?


      IP属地:河南来自Android客户端6楼2015-11-02 13:23
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        2*用大炮机关枪打不过用弓箭的土著人,能用钢铁船打输木船的也只有意大利了。
        ——————————————————————————————————————
        来看看意军1935——1936入侵埃塞俄比亚主要战役的伤亡比
        First Battle of Tembien
        Strength
        意军
        Approximately 70,000
        埃军
        Approximately 70,000
        Casualties and losses
        意军
        Approx. 1,083 casualties
        埃军
        Approx. 8,000 casualties
        Battle of Amba Aradam
        Strength
        意军
        Approximately 70,000
        埃军
        Approximately 80,000
        Casualties and losses
        意军
        Approx. 800 casualties
        埃军
        Approx. 6,000 killed, Approx. 12,000 wounded
        Almost entire army ultimately neutralized as a fighting force
        Second Battle of Tembien
        Strength
        意军
        Approximately 70,000
        埃军
        Approximately 80,000
        Casualties and losses
        意军
        Approx. 800 casualties
        埃军
        Approx. 6,000 killed, Approx. 12,000 wounded
        Battle of Shire
        Strength
        意军
        Approximately 47,000
        埃军
        Approximately 23,500
        Casualties and losses
        意军
        Approx. 1,000 killed and wounded
        埃军
        Approx. 4,000 killed and wounded
        这叫打不过吗?
        再看看意军占领埃塞俄比亚的总伤亡
        截至埃塞俄比亚首都陷落:
        10,000 killed, 44,000 wounded
        反游击战期间
        9,555 killed2
        144,000 sick and wounded
        埃军整个五年的伤亡
        Approx. 275,000 combatants killed, 500,000 wounded Approx.
        文献参考:
        Alberto Sbacchi, "The Price of Empire: Towards an Enumeration of Italian Casualties in Ethiopia 1935–1940", in ed. Harold G. Marcus, Ethiopianist Notes, vol. II, No. 2, p.37.
        Sbacchi, "The Price of Empire", p.36.
        Sbacchi, "The Price of Empire", p.43.
        Sbacchi, "The Price of Empire", p.38.
        Angelo Del Boca, The Ethiopian War 1935–1941 (1965), cites a 1945 memorandum from Ethiopia to the Conference of Prime Ministers, which tallies 760,300 natives dead; of them, battle deaths: 275,000, hunger among refugees: 300,000, patriots killed during occupation: 75,000, concentration camps: 35,000, Feb. 1937 massacre: 30,000, executions: 24,000, civilians killed by air force: 17,800.[6]
        至于钢铁船打输木船,呵呵,东非意军海军主力在厄立特里亚的马萨瓦,埃塞俄比亚一内陆国家根本就没有海军。


        IP属地:河南来自Android客户端10楼2015-11-02 13:25
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          快输给埃塞俄比亚就准备放毒气……
          ——————————————————————————————————————————
          来看看意军放毒气究竟对战局起了多大作用,可以用美帝观察员的话Norman Fiske引证:几乎没有作用。
          However, some historians (for example, Anthony Mockler) consider the effect of this gas weapon in battle negligible, like in the report written by the US Major Norman Fiske. Major Fiske thought the Italians were clearly superior and that victory for them was assured no matter what. The use of chemical agents in the war was nothing more than an experiment. He concluded: "From my own observations and from talking with [Italian] junior officers and soldiers I have concluded that gas was not used extensively in the African campaign and that its use had little if any effect on the outcome."
          这段话的出处:Clark DK. Effectiveness of Toxic Chemicals in the Italo–Ethiopian War. Bethesda, Md: Operations Research Office; 1959. p20


          IP属地:河南来自Android客户端13楼2015-11-02 13:26
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            偷袭投降前的法国还被打回来的事迹也是家喻户晓…
            ————————————————————————————————
            事实上,意军还是有点进展的,只不过墨索里尼命令下得太突然,准备不足,战果不大而已
            看看第1山地师“陶伦菲斯”的战斗记录:
            From 10 June to 24 June 1940 the division advanced with other Italian units into Southern France and occupied Bourg-Saint-Maurice, where it was garrisoned after the end of hostilities.
            可见意军进攻法国仅仅是进展不大,而非被完虐


            IP属地:河南来自Android客户端14楼2015-11-02 13:26
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              美军登陆意大利,与意大利对峙的时候,美军感觉到意大利人毫无战争意志,因此刻意减弱了攻击力度。一次德军侦察机飞过战场侦查,意大利军指挥官心想面子太挂不住而下令装作正在作战的样子攻击,美军也毫无干劲地反击。这场战斗被德军侦察机发现,感慨地说:“厉害!意大利人制止了美军的攻势!”(神啊)
              之后德国的增援部队到达,开始了一场真正的激战。
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              其实这是拿西西里岛战役里窝那步兵师是奋战戏说了,其实里窝那师的在吉拉滩头的抵抗还是比较顽强的,只是由于美军驱逐舰的炮火压制导致反击失败
              On 10 July Livorno infantry supported by the 155th Bersaglieri Motorcycle Company and a column of tanks poured onto Highways 115 and 117 and nearly retook the city of Gela, but guns from the destroyer Shubrick and the cruiser Boise destroyed several Fiat 3000 tanks (a variant of the French Renault tank). The Amphibious Battle of Gela was reported by an American newspaper: "Supported by no less than forty-five tanks, a considerable force of infantry of the Livorno Division attacked the American troops around Gela. The American division beat them back with severe casualties. This was the heaviest response to the Allied advance." [2] The Livorno regrouped made a further attempt to retake Gela two days later and the 3rd Battalion, 34 Livorno Regiment, is recorded by its Commanding Officer as having made a valiant effort in the Gela Beachhead.


              IP属地:河南来自Android客户端15楼2015-11-02 13:27
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                6*意大利夜间曾经有过“我们睡着了的话对方一定也睡了,因此不会被攻击的”这样的说法,最后遭到了英军的奇袭。
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                夜袭英军的帕维亚步兵师笑了
                The division was at the First battle of El Alamein as part of the Italian X Corps, where it defended Ruweisat Ridge before taking heavy casualties and being rendered largely ineffective by New Zealand Infantry and British Armour on the 14–15 July 1942. During the initial phase of the fighting Pavia served as a rearguard for the Ariete Division where, according to US historian Conrad H. Lanza, the division repulsed the advance of the and the New Zealand 23rd Battalion with a night counter attack.
                该师在第一次阿拉曼战役中作为意大利第10军的一部分参与了守卫Ruweisat高地的战斗,但是在1942年7月14-15日的战斗中面对英军装甲和新西兰步兵承受了巨大伤亡并且作战效率逐步下降。在最初阶段的战斗中,根据美国历史学家Conrad H. Lanza的说法,帕维亚步兵师作为艾略特装甲师的后卫以一场夜袭击退了新西兰23营的推进。
                夜里阻击英军推进的的里雅斯特摩步师第9狙击步兵团笑而不语
                1941年11月23日,在十字军作战中,英军第70步兵师在60辆坦克的支援下突破了25半摩托化师“博洛尼亚”的防线。意大利人重新集结后帕维亚步兵师投入反击,封锁了敌人的突破。在25日夜26日凌晨,英军70步兵师再次攻击,但是的里雅斯特师的第9狙击步兵团反击并阻止了英军的这次推进。
                On 23 November 1941, during the Operation Crusader, the British 70th Infantry Division, supported by 60 tanks[5]broke through part of the 25 Semi-Motorised Division Bologna. The Italians rallied and the Pavia went over to the counterattack, sealing off the enemy breakthrough. On the night of 25-26 November, the British 70th Division attacked again, but the 9th Bersaglieri Regiment of the Trieste Division counterattacked and check this British advance.


                IP属地:河南来自Android客户端16楼2015-11-02 13:27
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                  2025-05-21 11:13:01
                  广告
                  伽利略号战斗关于坎大哈号赶来增援说法之出处:
                  Giorgio Giorgerini, Uomini sul fondo. Storia del sommergibilismo italiano dalle origini a oggi, p. 395-396"


                  IP属地:河南来自Android客户端18楼2015-11-02 13:29
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                    9*1940年6月30日,意大利驻利比亚总督巴尔博元帅在托卜鲁克上空被意大利自己的高射炮兵击落。意大利人为了掩饰这一杯具,便宣布元帅是在同英国人进行空战中遇难的。
                    用高射炮误射自家元帅,使他成为被误伤的二战军人中军衔最高的人……
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                    关于friendly fire,盟军和德意军还真是谁也别笑谁,如果你作为高射炮兵能分辨出在天空的SM.79和英国佬的Bristol Blenheims的机影,那你才有资格笑话


                    IP属地:河南来自Android客户端19楼2015-11-02 13:29
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                      10*1943年盟军在意大利登陆,有一个战场,盟军激战一早晨,无一伤亡。惟一的损失是自己的飞机把空降兵投到了大海里(把沙洲当成了滩头)。
                      --------------------------------------------------------
                      西西里登陆盟军最先遇到的是民兵级海防师,还是那种排着整齐方队的海防师,美军精锐连这样的民兵都打不过可以去死了


                      IP属地:河南来自Android客户端20楼2015-11-02 13:29
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                        11*二战时意大利进攻希腊,意大利士兵却一致地说我们没法进攻, 因为希腊境内有芬兰部队(芬兰军人在苏芬的冬季战争中把苏联人打的非常惨)。墨索里尼于是要求芬兰从希腊撤军,芬兰调查后发现只有三名芬兰士兵和三名军官在希腊当志愿兵, 于是回复墨索里尼说, 所谓的部队只有六个志愿者. 墨索里尼十分生气, 发电报给芬兰: 我指的正是这些人!
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                        其实这是墨索里尼为了堵住军方拒绝参战的嘴做出的举动,其实意大利军方尽了一切努力避免战争,然而还是被墨索里尼绑架


                        IP属地:河南来自Android客户端21楼2015-11-02 13:29
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                          12*萨勒诺登陆战中,盟军在滩头没有遇到抵抗,随军记者报道,盟军在滩头遭遇的最强的抵抗来自于当地动物园因为轰炸流落出来的一只美洲豹,咬伤了两名美军士兵。
                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                          傻缺作者根本不知道意大利投降是在9月3日,登陆萨勒诺是在9月9日,此时意大利王国已经加入盟军,所以抵抗的是驻意德军
                          萨莱诺登陆「雪崩作战」——美军第5军团在萨莱诺的主要登陆行动——开始於9月9日,为了保障进攻的突然性,盟军决定在登陆前不进行任何炮火准备或空中轰炸,但战略上的突然性未能达到,当进攻第1波的美军第36步兵师到达佩斯敦海滩时,在滩头上的扬声器便用英文大声说:「趁来得及放弃吧,我们已将你们包围。」盟军的进攻没有收获。英军第10军,由英军第46步兵师、英军第56步兵师、一支美军游骑兵及英国皇家海军突击队,在登陆时面临很复杂的情况,美军游骑兵在没有遇到抵抗下占据了山头地区,英军突击队到达海滩时只遇到轻微抵抗及很快便占领了萨莱诺城,但2个英军步兵师就遇到极其顽强的抵抗及需要海军炮火支援,德军防守的深度及密度令英军需集中兵力进攻,而未能向南推进与美军会合。在佩斯敦,德军建立了一些炮火及机关枪据点,又在登陆地区满布坦克,令盟军难以推进,虽然进展缓慢,第36步兵师仍然成功的建立滩头阵地,大约早上7时,德军第16装甲师发动大规模反击,造成盟军重大伤亡但德军被盟军海军炮火击退,在南面,第1营第141步兵连苦战一天及与部队的无线电通讯中断。由於英军及美军之滩头阵地被中间的5英哩走廊隔开,2个英军步兵师被授以攻占此走廊之任务,第2天日落时,两军滩头阵地连成一起,盟军占据了一块长35至45英哩(55至70km)长、6至7英哩(10至12km)深度之登陆场。


                          IP属地:河南来自Android客户端22楼2015-11-02 13:30
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                            13*拓扑路克之围时,隆美尔一大早巡视阵地,发现一个精锐的意大利火枪点击营的防区里空空如也,只有一地鸡毛。
                            -------------------------------------------------------
                            这傻缺作者根本不知道意大利的神枪手步兵(Bersaglieri)的帽子和钢盔上有雷鸟毛装饰,故意地说成是鸡毛,其用心之毒,可见一斑
                            相反托卜鲁克之围时神枪手步兵的表现可圈可点:
                            On 1 May 1941 the Germans and Italians attacked Tobruk in considerable strength. Their attack pierces the defences, and the Ariete and 8th Bersaglieri capture the R3, R4, R5, R6 and R7 strongpoints.On 3 May the Australians launched a counterattack with their 18th Brigade. The counterattack only recaptures one strongpoint from what Australian historian Mark Johnston reported to be Italian defenders.[4] This action is later known as the Battle of the Salient.
                            1941年5月1日,德意军以可观的力量进攻了托卜鲁克。他们的进攻突破了防御,艾略特师和第8狙击步兵团占领了R3, R4, R5, R6 and R7 支撑点。5月3日,澳大利亚人以18旅发动了反击,根据澳大利亚历史学家Mark Johnston的记录,这次反击仅仅夺回了1个支撑点。这次行动就是“突出部战役”


                            IP属地:河南来自Android客户端23楼2015-11-02 13:30
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                              2025-05-21 11:07:01
                              广告
                              14*意大利被希腊打的时候,法国人在意法边境竖了路牌:希腊人,止步,这里已经是法国。
                              ------------------------------------------
                              事实上是意大利和希腊军主力在阿尔巴尼亚边界对峙


                              IP属地:河南来自Android客户端24楼2015-11-02 13:30
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